tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post3586252680382631075..comments2024-03-04T10:43:03.201+00:00Comments on The Reason Stick: It’s Skeptical Correctness Gone MadCrispian Jagohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16834942943012382473noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-33429739785548503432011-11-23T08:00:12.516+00:002011-11-23T08:00:12.516+00:00I made my certainty quite clear:
https://plus.goo...I made my certainty quite clear:<br /><br />https://plus.google.com/105398101580254540818/posts/NVdJYXnoaTQSummer Sealehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05366565083839326072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-30531070495947280732011-11-20T15:15:30.961+00:002011-11-20T15:15:30.961+00:00As far as I know, ther term 'fraud' relate...As far as I know, ther term 'fraud' relates to an intentional deception. The problem with Sally and others in her line of work is that we can't be certain of whether they're acting in good faith or not. In fact, we'd be on a sticky wicket if that was to be the focus of our efforts, as we can no more read her mind than she can contact our dead friends.<br /><br />I really liked the million dollar challenge because, like the homeopathic overdose, I thought it was great outreach. We don't need to preach to the choir; neither are we ever likely to get a public change of heart from Sally herself. <br /><br />But there are loads of people in the middle who get to find out about the debate via photogenic and newsworthy events. Our skeptical position would look unfairly unreasonable unless we were prepared to concede in advance that we may be wrong. It's the strength of our approach. We weight evidence and Sally was invited to contribute to that body of evidence.<br /><br />I loved your point that she is not "a complete and utter fuckwit". That brought a smile to my day. It's one of the things that makes the whole area so slippery. No-one with any sense would enter a fight they can't possibly win. But if we assume this whole thing wasn't aimed at changing Sally's mind, but the minds of people who looked in the papers that day, then it was still a job well done.<br /><br />I do wonder if there's another factor in skeptical dialogue regarding belief in 'supernatural powers' - that we have a hard time believing that anyone could hold such beliefs in good faith. My experience is that some truly do; although obviously when you get up to the high rollers like Helen Duncan, Doris Stokes et al, it's obvious they'd lose more than they could afford to by admitting any cynicism at all.<br /><br />I thought Derren Brown's lucky dog footage was brilliant too! Nice blogpost.Deborah Hydehttp://www.jourdemayne.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-91097482719227519352011-11-19T13:23:22.328+00:002011-11-19T13:23:22.328+00:00Nice article, I am one skeptic who everyone knows ...Nice article, I am one skeptic who everyone knows NEVER pussy foots around. I have been openly calling Sally Morgan a liar and a fraud for over 6 years. <br /><br />I am the ONLY person who actually researched, investigated and proved she lied, and then forced her to remove such claims from her site.<br /><br />Shame my skeptical collegues dont take my lead and actually do some hard work, investigative journalism and so on, instead of "pussyfooting" around, or conducting dumb ass ill thought out publicity stunts that only end up make her look like the victim.Jon Donnishttp://www.badpsychics.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-49260682099931621542011-11-19T10:26:15.340+00:002011-11-19T10:26:15.340+00:00"Enough rope"
But. But that's what ..."Enough rope"<br /><br />But. But that's what the challenge does. What.Svlad Cjellinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-26456133272410431092011-11-18T21:56:18.796+00:002011-11-18T21:56:18.796+00:00I think the Crispian has missed the point. Just be...I think the Crispian has missed the point. Just because the people offering the tests believe her to be a fraud, does not mean they should say so. If you want someone to take a fair, scientifically controlled test, you are not going to persuade them by saying "You're a fraud, come take this test, it will prove it".<br /><br />Now, we all know that Sally isn't going to take up the challenge, even if you phrase the invitation diplomatically. But that refusal, in itself, does say something, but only to those people that believe the test is fair. If you make the invitation in a manner that suggests it might not be fair, Sally's refusal will be perfectly understandable to those people that might be persuaded one way or the other about Sally's "powers".A Brit Abroadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08494023568531508207noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-18902645428232873122011-11-18T21:46:23.456+00:002011-11-18T21:46:23.456+00:00Is in not the case that if Sally is using a wire a...Is in not the case that <b>if</b> Sally is using a wire and being fed information from collaborators (as has been alleged) then this is clearly fraud - she and her accomplices have set out with the clear intention of deceiving her audience and thus defrauding them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-60432205732759305382011-11-18T21:39:55.320+00:002011-11-18T21:39:55.320+00:00Such are the iniquities of UK libel law that pussy...Such are the iniquities of UK libel law that pussyfooting is practically mandatory if you want to keep the shirt on your back. Also, it's important to avoid turning into the big, bad oppressive wolf.<br /><br />Me? I just slap a FPI order on that mess. If she can't prove it, it ain't real.anarchic teapothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15202342480527269614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-11537302558691230562011-11-18T21:39:12.734+00:002011-11-18T21:39:12.734+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.anarchic teapothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15202342480527269614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-12295550466463922712011-11-18T21:32:55.483+00:002011-11-18T21:32:55.483+00:00I think BadScienceMonk hits the nail on the head h...I think BadScienceMonk hits the nail on the head here, and that's basically why I don't agree that skeptics are pussy-footing (well, maybe some are!).<br /><br />I'm not not calling Sally a fraud because I'm a coward - I've happily accused people of all sorts of stuff in virtual print before. I'm not calling Sally a fraud because fraud requires some sort of intent, and skeptics to date haven't put forward any real evidence to show that she's committing fraud rather than simply deluded. <br /><br />I think it's important for skeptics to understand the nature of belief, and make that distinction between scam artists, and people who genuinely believe in what they do. <br /><br />Anyway, keep up the good work!Martin Robbinshttp://www.guardian.co.uk/laysciencenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-56725303216779289702011-11-18T21:28:27.010+00:002011-11-18T21:28:27.010+00:00Great post, Crispian!
[ I will point out though, ...Great post, Crispian!<br /><br />[ I will point out though, that the dog was a statue not a statute. ;) ]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-26670146936212743292011-11-18T21:27:48.880+00:002011-11-18T21:27:48.880+00:00There is also the possibilty she could be deluded ...There is also the possibilty she could be deluded rather than a fraud.<br /><br />I supposebadsciencemonkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01679943387823280788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2940570413170689012.post-41985178005941265802011-11-18T20:43:24.667+00:002011-11-18T20:43:24.667+00:00Spot on. In an effort to sound "open-minded&q...Spot on. In an effort to sound "open-minded" some skeptics have said some absurd things; lending credibility to things that are devoid of evidence.Live Rugby Commentaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13112574018991050264noreply@blogger.com